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Employees still need direction when leaders cannot offer certainty. For Adam Hickman, that means explaining what is known, acknowledging what remains uncertain and giving teams a clear path forward.
From slowing decisions to creating competing priorities, uncertainty can affect how employees approach their work. Hickman explores how transparent communication, clear decision-making responsibilities and regular updates can help teams move forward, while managers build trust by listening, following through and explaining their decisions.
He joins the HR Grapevine Podcast to discuss why leadership development needs ongoing practice and coaching, how managers can ask directly for feedback on trust, and why recognizing adaptability and collaboration matters alongside rewarding results.
Host: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the HR Grapevine Podcast. I'm your host, Benjamin Broomfield, head of content here at HR Grapevine. And I'm joined today by Adam Hickman, vice president of organizational and cast development at Partners Federal Credit Union. Adam is the vice president of learning, organizational development, and cast members. And in this role, Adam is responsible for executing the people strategy related to human development, engagement, culture development, and progressive career mobility has over eighteen years of experience leading leadership development efforts. And today we're going to be talking about leading without all the answers. How to create clarity when you can't provide certainty, no doubt a topic that a lot of you in the audience are going to be quite familiar with at the minute. We know that AI and constant change is making certainty impossible, but employees are still expecting at least some level of direction. So today we're going to be exploring how leaders can effectively clarify what's known, acknowledge what remains uncertain and give teams the confidence to move forward, hopefully offering some practical ways to communicate through that change to strengthen trust and sustain performance without pretending to have every answer. Adam, a warm welcome to the podcast and thank you for joining us.
Guest: Thanks, Benjamin.
Host: Well, we know that uncertainty become a bit of a buzzword for business leaders these days. How is it tangibly creating risk for employers in practice?
Guest: Yeah. Great question. The shortest is slows decisions, creates just competing priorities. And then our workforce planning is almost impossible at that point. And I think the easiest way you can land it is if you're uncertain about something, think of all the things that run through your head. Possibilities, the what ifs, all of that. Well, if that's the case, it's hard to get to the because you don't know what you don't know. And when employees are hesitant to act, it's because they're unsure of what may change next, or the ambiguity around productivity and engagement and all the things that just lead all the indicators on when things are uncertain, it's tough. I think another really good example of, you know, when there are things that are uncertain, we tend as humans just to gravitate towards what is certain. And so if you think of other work priorities or even relationships on things, and you go to those who you trust when there's things that are uncertain. So all of that just stems around. The problem is I don't it's hard to say, is there ever going to be certain other than tomorrow is going to come? But, you know, our CEO will often say, like, if you're waiting for what's the future like? Well, it's right now. So things will change again and again.
Host: Absolutely. I think certainly it's a topic that we're seeing spoken about a lot more widely in the last few years. Obviously, the impact of AI, the pace of change, geopolitical challenges. It feels like uncertainty is something now that employers have to deal with a lot more. At the same time, we've gone through these real intense periods of change before, you know, and perhaps in some regards, there's not too much that's new there as well. So I suppose is it something that now fundamentally, there has to be a change in the way that we communicate with employees. Is that something that the leaders need to rethink a little bit in terms of how they're managing that, whether that's day to day communications, the bigger messages that they're putting out there? What does that need to look like now?
Guest: Yeah. I mean, the first is just the trust and transparency that what you know, and what you don't know. I don't know why sometimes we confuse this on or should we? What should we say? Like, well, let's start with the truth that that works well. And if it's, you know, frequent, transparent, great. But then leaning into explaining what you know, what you don't know, what remains unchanged and when am I going to get the next update? I mean, I hate saying this insensitive, but like, think of a storm coming through, right? You turn on the news, you're watching for updates, but you're hopefully is trustworthy, but you're always doubting for, you know, what's next or when should we get the next update or anything of that sort. But they're not hiding anything. So relate it back to the workplace. I'm always confused as to why people wouldn't. If you've got information And you could argue, you know, when do I release it versus do we release it? You should do the whole thing. But, you know, inducing panic when it's not necessary, I understand that. But then also when the full story, when you're able to, you should share the whole everything that was around and what that decision is that will build the trust with the organization, especially with leaders and organizations.
Host: Absolutely. Maybe it'd be useful to touch on a little bit more around some of the best ways to, I guess, try and create some level of clarity when that certainty isn't there. I mean, is that something that, you know, they're a good sort of structures and vehicles to do that in terms of, you know, specific kind of meetings or touch points within the day to day organization and the day to day workflows. Is there any sort of best tips that you have as well, perhaps things that you've seen from partners or other organizations who've been able to do a really good job of sort of, you know, almost welcoming that that uncertainty, but still creating that level of clarity for, for staff around what, what the current and future direction is for the business.
Guest: Yeah. Clarity comes from a direction, guardrails around those decision rights, and then ultimately, immediately, what's next? Uh, probably the best example we have right now going on is just our job levels within the entire company and our HR ops teams doing fantastic around. What are the talk tracks that we go out to managers with to know where are you at level wise where you're not? What's the guidance on what's flexible versus what's fixed? It's a good tactic where we could just do it and say, here's the outcome versus the collaborative everyone's understanding. So when they take it to their teams, they've got a good understanding of well about it as well.
Host: On the other side of it, it's perhaps useful to consider, I guess maybe the challenge of vulnerability, I think, is something that is increasingly a valued trait in leadership, that ability to be vulnerable and admit when something is known on the other side of it, that there's a way of being able to do that without sort of creating fear and adding to that level of anxiety, perhaps, that some staff are. So is that something that the leaders you think need to be aware of, and how can they, I guess, avoid taking it too far with that level of vulnerability and transparency to the point where, yeah, it just maybe adds to, to that fear that some people have.
Guest: Yeah. Without offering any context or path forward. Sure. It would be risky to if you don't know what you don't know. Okay. Acknowledging that, but they've got it. You should be communicating some sense of hope forward of what that is, which is additional context as to why you don't know or what the path forward would look like. The best approach I think I would coach someone through was, you know, reinforce what's being done around whatever those taking place. How do you build the stability by what you're saying and how you say it, and then what's within their control? That to me, those are the right recipes to get you there. But just, you know, saying like, hey, we're, we're heading for tough waters and I don't have a clue what we're going to do. Well, then people will look for answers in places that's probably not going to find it or they're going to make them up.
Host: We've spoken before about the relationship that employees have with their managers and with their bosses and how important they are. And I think that's obviously a really big part of it as well, that that close relationship, being able to, to create trust is obviously super important when so much is unknown. So what are some of the ways that managers can really create that level of trust with, with employees and perhaps a sort of a follow up question, is there a good way to, to measure that as well, to be able to identify maybe where that trust doesn't exist in certain relationships, perhaps give a bit a bit more context, a bit more understanding to, to help identify maybe where that trust needs to be created and worked on.
Guest: Yeah. I feel like that could be a podcast in itself. Um, so my point of view on trust is it's past tense. So I don't know, I can trust you until we've got some time together and reps together. Some of some people will just offer it up right off the go, which is great for them. But that's not me. And you know, I know with my team, we're, you know, a new member coming to my team. I've got to build some repetitions with them for them to know, hey, can I trust this guy or not? So that's things by behaviorally listening, following through, explaining decisions, not just outcomes and how we got to that. And then acknowledgment around how that person's, I'll say seen, heard and valued that builds the trust. You know, if I had to put a formula together, it'd be those pieces that are in the midst of it to measure it. Yeah, there's, there's a couple ways. One's a bold way. Just ask your employees, do they trust you? And if they say yes, say why? If they say no, say why. So you've got an idea of where what you've got to rebuild or behaviors that you've got to think you can do it through pulse surveys, you know, retention scores, employee feedback. Do people feel safe speaking up to you? Or are they going to their HR, BP or other outlets or things along the way? But yeah, I always tell people, don't wait for a survey to tell you the results. Just you know what you're chasing. So just be bold and courageous enough to be able to speak up and ask him.
Host: Perhaps another part of this as well is, is really having the skill set to be able to navigate, you know, this, this challenge of uncertainty. I think it's fair to, to say that employees are probably coming, becoming maybe a bit more vocal when that, when that level of uncertainty isn't there and being quite open about that. So I suppose the knock on effect for managers and leaders is really that they need to be more capable at dealing with that, perhaps having the right communication skills, that ability to, to build that trust. So, I mean, what are you seeing in terms of good approaches that that HR can take to, I guess, run the right leadership development programs, run the right coaching to make sure that managers and leaders have the skills that they need to, to handle this work. What does that sort of what does good look like in your experience there?
Guest: Yeah. So this has evolved over the years. I think the traditional corporate university approach in my mind, dissolve it. Dissolve it in the sense of if you have a program that you put people through, probably great. I don't know how much use people are getting out of it because unless you're curating their content year over year, it's really hard to have one program that you can run continuously and hit the mark for everything necessary. You've got to be so flexible and adaptable in the moment on, well, what do we need now and what do we, what do we think we should be offering? So a good example for us right now has been accountability is always the term and word that I hear. So we need a, we need a course on, on, you know, air quotes, tough conversations. I don't believe in that. I don't I don't have a if it's a tough conversation, it's because you're making it tough, probably tougher on yourself than it needs to be. And if you're doing it right, it's reflective of performance or behaviors to where don't spend time talking about tough stuff. Just be reflective of what you've observed and what you've seen as it relates to performance. And it's not really tough. Those with low courage make it tough because they're so worked up about, How's Benjamin going to respond to me when I say this. I don't know, but it doesn't matter. Like you're hired to do a job. That's part of the demands. You've got to have the conversation so you don't make it tough. So do they really need a training for accountability? No, they need some at bats at this. They've got to try it out. They've got to find their talk tracks. It's my words or my words. We're all not going to follow the one sentence that's in the book and how we should say this. You got to make it your own. So for it to be a one time event, I think that's a complete bust. I wouldn't do it. You need an ongoing practice with scenarios, with coaching, with, you know, peers that you can call on and say, well, how did you get through this? Or what did you say? Because everything works great in training because you don't have a real person in front of you yet. So when someone you know comes in the door with something, and then they have no idea that the other person's got a whole bunch of outside life stuff going on, how do you navigate that? So I would retire. I was probably the best word, the programs of the past that have worked. And if not, go through and curate and ensure you're offering things that make sense right now. Because in six months from now, you're not going to need those, right? There's another wave coming, but would be necessary.
Host: Definitely, and to your earlier point, I guess just get comfortable with openly asking for that feedback. You know, is that level of trust there is this way of communication, engagement working for you? Is there, you know, more clarity that can be given a better way of giving that clarity. Asking for that open feedback is obviously a really important part of creating that two way relationship. We discussed a little bit around the manager and leaders side there, but perhaps sort of as a final question, I want to flip it back and kind of think about, you know, employees and really, you know, again, I think a lot of workforces at the minute are going to be putting a lot of thought into how they can really coach and develop in an ongoing way. That level of adaptability and agility, the, you know, being able to respond to this uncertainty and change and not look at it as, okay, this is something that's really difficult for us now we have to deal with, but actually spin it and really see it as an opportunity to, you know, work differently and embrace that, that opportunity to adapt and move quickly. So again, whether this sort of experience from partners or perhaps other best practices that you've seen, how do you think HR teams can really, I guess, coach, develop that level of adaptability and agility and even incentivize it as well, and to make sure that the workforce is really ready for that constant change and uncertainty.
Guest: Yeah, great. So in your performance and your recognition, I think is the secret sauce to what this is performance being when you see it as their leader or HR recognizes it as something. Something's got to be said. It's, I haven't chased this too long before, but I've started this saying about if you think it and feel it, then say it. And I found a lot of people think of it and they sometimes they feel it, but they don't say it. So it's like if you've done something that exhibits the behavior that you want in a role. And as a leader, I think that was that was pretty good. That was pretty cool. Nobody says anything. We just like. And to me, it's like, you can't have osmosis. Transfer this to the person. So if you if you knew about it, why didn't you say something? Because to them, it's the recognition of something that you want. So to get more of it, you got to say it. So those, those two there, I would say are ideal for your HR team, specifically your HR are your listening loops. They need to be in every possible meeting to hear what's going on, what's the pulse on the street? You know, related to that, if there's calibration sessions that can happen about employees performance with leaders and managers through HR, you know, them being skilled up on knowing how to coach to the adaptable aspects of things and then how to recognize it in the moment and celebrate it as an idea, you know, that they should be using as well. Our goal is, is just not to recognize the results, but also, you know, how people lead through change, how they are collaborating with others, how they're adaptable with others, all, all of that falls around that sense of when your team and other leaders, you know, and they're thinking about it with somebody or, you know, every now and then if it's eight o'clock at night. And I thought about, gosh, somebody really did something that day, you got a phone in front of you. I know everybody does, and you got email. Instead of being tied down and reading things, you don't need to send them a note. Say it doesn't need to be, you know, three paragraphs long, but just, just little acknowledgement goes so far away. And, and here's the bonus. You don't need AI for this. You can't use it if you want, but you know better when it's I say handwritten, but not now is more AI written, but just that acknowledgement will start the repetitions again on why they would want to do it again.
Host: Absolutely. Well, I think that's what we've got time for today. But Adam, thank you so much for taking us through. I think perhaps one of the biggest challenges for a lot of leaders at the minute is really being able to navigate that, that uncertainty and that change. We've come at it from a few different angles. So thank you for sharing your wisdom as ever and much appreciated.
